Matt Marcus responds:
Greg Moore is the former Executive Director of WVMBA and is now a member. His comments are not yet endorsed by the WVMBA Board but I’m sure we agree with almost all he says.
Greg Moore has the courage to put his name on his comments… Lizaerdpower does not. These are the kind of deliberately misleading statements and spin WVMBA has been dealing with since 2004.
Greg Moore writes - this is a letter to further inform the public on what wilderness means and who is proposing these changes . In 1977 the wilderness act was introduced stating no motorized vehicles in wilderness areas. In 1984 it was changed to no motorized no mechanized. What does this mean ?
The bottom line is anything mechanical cannot be used in a wilderness area this includes bikes, chainsaws, wheelchairs,even pedal powered kayaks. They also cannot be repaired from desease or fire.
The 1964 Wilderness Act was originally introduced in 1956 as a bipartisan proposal. It was signed into law in 1964. It was never amended to exclude bicycles--they have never been allowed in wilderness areas. The Act prohibits the use of motorized and mechanized transport (except by the administering agency where such use is determined necessary to meet the minimum requirements of administering the area and in emergencies). The language, as enacted in 1964, could not be clearer: "... within any wilderness area designated by this Act ... there shall be ... no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport ...."
Look at the quotations.. nothing about bicycles or mechanized equipment.
The language could not be clearer. The Forest Service did allow bicycles in Wilderness until the mid 1980’s when they changed the rules from motorized to mechanized. Do your homework Lizardlips.
Mr. Moore's concern for the disabled is also mis-directed as Section 507 of the 1990 American's With Disabilities Act emphasized that the Wilderness Act does allow the use of wheelchairs by mobility-impaired persons within any wilderness area.
Greg Moore writes - The mon national forest has close to 800 miles of trail in it ,after government cuttbacks and limited field work days the forest service cannot keep up with its current work load. Many of these trails are maintained by members of wvmba because the forest service doesn't have the man power . what does wilderness mean ? In this case it means the forest services workload is even more because they will have to use older methods of trail maitenance(no wheelbarrows chainsaws,or even atvs ). Also if you cant ride your bike on the trail why would you want to keep that trail cleared.
The Mon National Forest has approximately 997 miles of trails, 86% of which are open to bicycling. The Mon also has over 4,000 miles of roads available for bicycling, many of which are 4 wheel drive in nature and closed to motor vehicles. If the Wild Monongahela Act were enacted, still 80% of the Mon's trails, and all of the forest roads, would remain open to bicycles. This is in addition to hundreds more miles of trails available on State Parks and Forests, Rail Trails and other areas where wilderness designation is not possible.
All of the best backcountry trails with looping opportunities would be closed if the Wilderness people have their way. The Dolly Sods North and Roaring Plains are unique and are considered special places by mountain bikers and lizardlips is telling you to go ride somewhere else.
It is unfortunate that the Mon National Forest’s budget is limited for trail work. The maintenance done by WVMBA is commendable. Plenty of trail work is also being done by members of the Wilderness Coalition. In managing Wilderness areas, the Forest Service must apply the minimum tool requirement. Simply stated, the least impacting tool necessary to accomplish a management task is the one that should be used. In the event of a massive blow down across a trail or similar occurrence, the Forest Supervisor can authorize the use of chainsaws or other mechanical equipment.
WVMBA and our affiliated clubs have over a thousand hours of maintenanace in 2007. How much did the WV Wilderness people do?
Greg Moore writes - Who is asking for this not the forest service and not the mountain bike communityand probably not anyone that is handicapped that enjoys being on trails. So back to who want this.
In their 2006 Land and Resource Management Plan, the US Forest Service recommended to Congress that over 27,000 acres of new wilderness be designated on the Mon. Of the nearly 13,000 individuals who commented on the plan, over 93%, or more than 12,000 people, urged the US Forest Service to recommend the maximum amount of new wilderness on the Mon. Most of these comments supported over 100,000 acres of additional wilderness, far more than is currently being considered. Less than 30 individuals, statistically equal to zero, commented with concerns about trail closures for mountain bicycling.
Greg Moore writes - The Mon Wilderness coalition, who are paid employees of the highland conservancy, the sierra club and the nature conservancy.That means 2/3 of their sallary is paid by out of state big business . Shouldn,t west virginias trail decisions be made by locals not out of state big business?
The West Virginia Wilderness Coalition was founded in 2001 by a group of West Virginia volunteers including Dave Saville, Mary Wimmer, Beth Little and others. The founding organizations were the West Virginia Highlands Conservancy, the West Virginia Chapter of the Sierra Club and The Wilderness Society a national organization which has nearly 1,000 members in West Virginia. Dave Saville, while helping found the Coalition, and working for many years as a volunteer, has recently become its paid coordinator. Decisions throughout the course of the campaign to protect the Mon have been driven by a volunteer steering committee. Many of these are individuals who have been working for the protection of the Mon for decades. In fact, without the tireless efforts of Mary Wimmer and the WV Chapter of the Sierra Club there would be no 6.2 backcountry designation as the Forest Service initially wanted to open up just about everything on the Mon to logging and energy development during the planning process in the 1980’s. The organizations involved in the Coalition are all non-profit conservation groups that have helped over the past several decades to protect much of the lands we enjoy today. Without the WV Highlands Conservancy for example, Canaan Valley would certainly be inundated under a giant hydro-power reservoir. To characterize them as ‘out of state big business’ defies logic. The Nature Conservancy has never been a part of the West Virginia Wilderness Coalition in any way.
Look into what big corporate interests fund these out of state groups and you will find an elitist no humans allowed agenda driving the campaign. These interests do not represent the vast majority of West Virginians especially here in the tourism oriented mountain counties. West Virginians are accustomed to having the shots called from out of state.
Greg Moore writes - who are these employees of the mon wilderness coalition Dave seville (not the one from the chipmunks) Dave is one of the original promoters of the Black water 100 one of the most environmentally damaging commercial events to ever take place in wv there are still six foot deep ruts running through the bogs of canaan valley you have probably seen them if youve ridden on the trail system around davis. His other partner in crime is matt Keller.
It is regrettable, not to mention a violation of the rules of this forum, that Mr. Moore has stooped to the level of personal attacks. Dave Saville, one of the first people to buy a mountain bike from Blackwater Bikes in the early 1980s, was also instrumental in helping to organize the first mountain bike races in Davis and Canaan Valley.
Where is the personal attack? The TRUTH hurts sometimes. Is someone getting Dave confused with Laird Knight?
As a charter member of the West Virginia Mountain Bike Association, he also helped organize WVMBA's first trail maintenance and construction outings on the National Forest. He volunteered to help get the first mountain bike races started in Coopers Rock State Forest. When the Gnarly North Fork Mountain Bike Races were being criticized and threatened by the Forest Service, and others, it was Dave, as a conservationist, who got vocally involved, volunteered at the event with his family, and advocated for its continued allowance.
Funny how lizardlips does not address the fact that Dave Saville has done more to damage mountain biking in WV than any other single individual. Yes for years he set out the route of the infamous Blackwater 100 (check out the videos of the massive destruction) that resulted in the knee jerk reaction by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to shut over 80 miles of trails in Canaan Valley not only to bikes but to everyone. Thanks Dave. Then he was feeling very guilty and became the “environmentalist of the year”. Why don’t you go and do something about air and water pollution or mountain top removal instead of drawing silly meaningless lines on a map to keep out mountain bikes for no reason. Dave had the gaul to tell me that I could keep riding bikes there after it became Wilderness because it wouldn’t be enforced. Dave- are you going to pay my tickets and get my bike out of impoundment and bail me out of jail? I was on the original Board of WVMBA, Dave was not. What is a charter member of WVMBA? What is that? Someone is giving him way too much credit
An avid mountain bike rider himself, Dave has participated in many WVMBA sanctioned events and helped teams in 24 Hour races. Following the first, very wet, 24 hour race in Canaan Valley, it was Dave who volunteered to help the promoter restore the damaged trails.
Which the USF&W Service promptly closed and kicked the race out of Tucker County. Thanks Dave.
As a conservationist, Dave has been recognized with awards for his hard work protecting the places we all love from the US Department of Agriculture, US Fish & Wildlife Service, USDA Forest Service, the Isaack Walton League and the West Virginia Chapter of the Sierra Club. He was also given the highest honor awarded by the West Virginia Environmental Council in 2005. It is certainly safe to say that there are few people alive today who have contributed as much as Dave has to the environmental health and well being of the Highlands of West Virginia we all enjoy so much. This personal attack of his character is heinous.
Greg Moore writes - Members of wvmba have met with them on wilderness topics. In the first meeting They offered not to push wilderness on canaan valley or slatyfork in return for wvmba to support their plan to make over 200 miles of trails closed to bikes for wilderness. Of course we laughed at them and asked for more compromise and they stated their out of state employers are not willing to compromise.
When the Wilderness Coalition was formed, one of the first activities of the volunteers involved was to meet with mountain bike leaders around the State. From these discussions several popular mountain biking areas on the National Forest were identified and removed from further consideration before their proposal was released. These included Canaan Mountain, Gauley Mountain, Tea Creek and Little Mountain Areas of the National Forest. These were considerable and significant concessions given the size and wilderness qualities of these Roadless Areas. It has been WVMBA that has refused to come to the bargaining table in good faith.
Lizardlips does not know the truth. Pleas read this: WV Mountain Biking and Wilderness Fact Sheet
The former West Virginia Mountain Bike Association (WVMBA) President, Matt Marcus attended a meeting with representatives of the WV environmental community at Laneville Cabin in the Monongahela National Forest around the year 2000. Dave Saville, Jim Sconyers, Don Gasper and representatives of the WV Highlands Conservancy, the WV Chapter of the Sierra Club and Trout Unlimited were represented. The meeting was upbeat and informative with all parties agreeing to try to reach a consensus on Wilderness that everyone at the meeting could support.
After the formation of the WV Wilderness Coalition (WVWC) another meeting was held in early December, 2003 with Saville, Marcus, Gil and Mary Willis from Elk River Touring Center and Virginia International Mountain Bike Association (IMBA) representative Chris Scott in the “icebox” on Canaan Mountain near Davis, WV. At that meeting, Mr. Saville assured all attendees that he would look into and consider options such as “Wilderness with bikes”, cherry-stemming trails and alternative Congressional protections (such as National Recreation Areas, National Scenic Areas and National Conservation Areas) as alternatives to traditional Wilderness, which prohibits bicycles, special events and mechanized trail maintenance.
In February, 2004 WVWC staff member Matt Keller, Saville, Marcus, Gil Willis and former WVMBA Executive Director Greg Moore attended a meeting at the “Green House” in Elkins, WV. A PowerPoint presentation outlining the WVWC Wilderness Proposal was shown to the representatives of the mountain bike community. WVMBA representatives were shocked to see that the proposal asked for 300,000 acres (out of 900,000) to be put into Wilderness and restrict over 250 miles of trails. WVWC representatives said that they did not include Canaan Mountain or Tea Creek (less than 10,000 acres) in the proposal as a concession to mountain bikers. WVMBA and IMBA representatives told Saville and Keller that they could not accept this deal and the WVWC should go ahead and include Canaan and Tea Creek in their plan if they so desired.
WVMBA and IMBA representatives asked WVWC representatives why they had not included alternatives to traditional Wilderness in the proposal as they had previously indicated they might. Keller and Saville stated that their boss at the Wilderness Society in Durango, Colorado, Michael Carroll had been uncompromising, rejected these ideas and had characterized them as “Wilderness Lite”. At this time Mr. Willis formally withdrew Elk River Touring support from the WVWC.
In 2005 IMBA requested that Virginia Wilderness advocate Mark Miller, who had helped to form a consensus on the Jefferson National Forest Ridge and Valley Wilderness Bill with mountain bikers, come to the table with the WVWC, WVMBA and IMBA to help negotiate an agreement on the Monongahela National Forest. His participation was rejected by the WV Wilderness Coalition and the meeting never occurred.
In May, 2006 Marcus requested Saville to allow him to address the Board of Directors of the WV Highland Conservancy, WV Chapter of the Sierra Club, the Wilderness Society and the WV Wilderness Coalition. The request was ignored.
IMBA and the WVMBA have gone to Capital Hill in Washington, DC to visit with the entire WV Congressional Delegation for the last five years and have been repeatedly assured by everyone that they would be “at the table” when negotiations were made regarding the specifics of Congressional designations and boundaries. Unlike the Virginia Wilderness Bill, there never was a discussion including Congressional staff, cyclists and Wilderness advocates before these decisions were formulated.
WVWC representatives have repeatedly misrepresented the mountain bike community to solicit support from individuals and businesses claiming WVMBA had reached a compromise and supported the Wilderness proposal. Many of the Wilderness supporters were never told about the restrictions imposed by Wilderness legislation and several have withdrawn their support as a result.
WV Wilderness Coalition was made aware of the Wilderness designations formulated by Congress in the fall of 2007. WVMBA and IMBA were not given the specifics or maps until January 11, 2008, ten days before the Charleston Gazette announced that the WV Wilderness Bill would be introduced within two or three days.
None of the WVWC literature or the maps obtained from Congress list specific trails or trail mileages that have restricted access for bicycles, special events or mechanized trail maintenance. This table reflects the current estimate of trails and mileages and may not be complete. There are more trails and railroad grades that are not system trails that exist and are currently used by the public that are not listed here.
These are the 21 system trails totaling 70 miles that will be closed to bicycles, special events and mechanized trail maintenance if the current plan is enacted:
Dolly Sods North 22.3
509 Upper Red Creek 1.3 mi.
511 Blackbird Knob 4.7
514 Red Creek .5
520 Beaver Dam .7
521 Raven Ridge 2.8
522 Bear Rocks 2.4
523 Beaver View 1.2
524 Rocky Ridge 3.0
525 Harman 1.4
526 Dobbin Grade 4.3
Roaring Plains West 8.4
519 Flatrock Run 5.1
548 Roaring Plains 3.3
Cranberry Expansion 25.1
212 Lick Branch 2.1
213 Rough Run 3.5
214 Tumbling Rock 3.0
242 Little Fork 3.5
250 Birch Log 3.0
688 North South 10.0
Big Draft 13.6
614 Blue Bend 5.0
615 South Boundary 4.8
618 Anthony Creek 3.8
It was the Wilderness Coalition that initiated the many discussions between WVMBA and other representatives of the mountain biking community. Even following these major concessions by the Wilderness Coalition, the hard line, no compromise, position of WVMBA representatives made further negotiations with them impossible. In fact, these major concessions have not even been acknowledged by WVMBA, merely, as Mr. Moore states, "laughed at."
They have been lying since 2004 and this is proof.
Greg Moore writes - Soon after that meeting you could go to there website and it said mountainbikers and bikeshops support wilderness . What they didnt tell the bike shops or the few mountain bikers or even our congressional members is mountain bikes will be banned from these areas. They continue to miss inform the public about who supports them and will not compromise. The forest service doesnt support their plan and they will have to implement it if it becomes law. As far as i know only one bike shop in wv supports it and that is Wamsley Cycles I believe Chip is the only one not his employees.
The WVWC has been upfront and honest with everyone it has talked to including business owners, the congressional delegation and the public at large. Mountain bikers and the shops that support the Citizens’ Wilderness Proposal have done so with full knowledge of the proposal and the trail details.
Then how come all of the bike shops and Elk River Touring have withdrawn their support?
The US Forest Service has not yet taken a position on the Wild Monongahela Act beyond the 27,000 acres they are already on record as supporting. To assume they do not support the legislation is presumptuous.
Greg Moore writes - What can we do ? Write you'r congressperson or senator. Tell them you dont support trail closures that we mantain and hold events on which bring tourism to our state. If you are a sierra club , nature conservancy or Highland conservancy member revoke you membership with a letter explaining you dont support trail closures . Go to MonWild .org and see which businesses support this and boycott them with a an explanation of you dont support trail closures. The forest is public land and should be able to be used by everyone . Excluding user groups just because out of state big business says so is WRONG! Greg Moore
Thousands of West Virginian’s have worked for decades to protect the Mon. West Virginia teachers, moms, scientists, lawyers, lawmakers and even avid mountain bikers have supported efforts to protect the forest.
The Wild Mon legislation will only affect 6% of the trails on the Mon National Forest. Because they were not protected as wilderness, Forest Service Plan revisions moved half the Canaan Mountain Area into a logging management prescription. Most of the Cranberry Backcountry was eliminated and turned into a logging area. The mountain biking community was largely silent concerning the agencies plans to remove protections from many important roadless areas of the forest. In fact, the WVMBA’s comments on the Forest Plan supported less land protection than the West Virginia Forestry Association.
